Question Number: 14462

Character, Attitude and Control 11/17/2006

RE: REC Under 9

Darin Stahl of Sacramento, CA USA asks...

I have a question in regards to Red Cards..
My situation is such at my last game , Due to game day conditions a group of parents Approx 12-15 had taken shelter under a group of trees approx 10 yards behind a goal. The Parents had congregated there before the start of the game. After play had commenced, approx 5 min into the quarter the ref. had advised me to have the parents move from that area. I responded to the ref. that I will issue the message , I had sent an assistant and another parent to issue the message to the parents. I had one parent take this fairly rudely and asked aloud if "this was a rule" Mindful the ref. had whistled the game back in play immediately after he issued the warning to myself. Shortly after the comment the ref blew play dead and yelled across the field to the parents to "move or the game will be forfeited". I did not like his tone that he had used with my parents myself and a few other parents where not happy with the refs response. Immediately after that I informed the referree that if he had any more addresses to make to any parents that he should go thru me. During the second period of the game the aggitated parent was still quetioning the refs authority rather rudely. I had asked the parent to calm down, they moved further down field. Finally the ref had picked up a couple of other inuendos from the parent, at that time he issued a Yellow card to me and asked that the parent be removed to the parking lot. I spoke with the parent and they complied. This portion I understand a little, I am a first year coach, but how can a parent earn a coach a yellow card with out first asking the paretn to Leave the field?? After the final whistle and after both teams had shaken hands the husband of the Ejected parent came onto the field and verbaly abused the Ref. He was escorted off the field by my asst. coach after that the ref decided to issue me a red car and threatend to force a forfeit of the game. I questioned his judgement of that comment honestly and not rudely. Now looking at the FIFA rules of the game on page 37 it states the ref controls the game until "he leaves the field of play after the final whistle". The final whistle was blown the referee was still on the field of play due to the fact he was ref'ing the next game and the other teams had taken the field for warm ups.
To sum it up can a red card be issued after a game has been terminated? Especially if the coach was not directly responsible for the red card?
The CYSL rules state something that is unenforceable in my opinion. A referee can not be abused enroute to a game at a game or away from a game. How can a coach be liable for all of this? My parent has earned me a four game suspension per my PAD comittee it was 2 games for the Parent and 2 games because I am the Head Coach and responsoble for all actions on a field-- All were assesed to me. I even got a compliment from the opposing teams coach on how I handled the situation. I have never even had a yellow card issued to me in any of my previous games either this season.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Welcome to CYSA. Welcome to U-9 Recreational parents. My advice to you is speak with all your parents, have them at the halfway line. You sit in a chair 5 yards from the touchline and no parent can be closer to the touchline than you.

Tell your parents in the meeting this is not little league baseball, basketball or gridiron football so their behavior is going to be different. If they choose to yell and scream at the referee you deal with it before he does. If he has to, their behavior is going to hurt you because you will be held responsible.

The paragraph in the youth manual regarding behavior of players, substitutes, coaches and spectators is unenforceable because referees do not enforce it. If the referees, in no uncertain terms, told a parent his/her behavior is intolerable and that person is to leave or the match will not continue; people of that ilk would get the message and shut up. If they don't the referee must terminate the match.

I believe if the parent is unidentifiable the referee should retain all passes, send them all to CYSA, with the required report, and let CYSA deal with the problem as they are required to do by their 3:08:03. If that means, because of the one parent, no child is allowed to compete then so be it. The other parents would sort out the difficulty the one seems to have and the problem will go away by itself. Until then you are going to suffer the wrath of the referee when he is unable to accept the behavior of an idiot who knows more than everyone else and is willing to prove it by screaming. Sorry...

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

The referee cannot issue coaches cards unless a special league policy states that. Your parents were out of line not to obey referee orders immediatly. If the referee says something just comply and immediatly and none of this would have happend. The referee cannot declare a team thr winner on a forfeit, but only report what happend to the league

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

This is all quite insane but, I gather, all too commonplace in CYSA. USSF does not allow referees to issue cards to coaches. Apparantly CYSA does. No one is allowed behind the goal line in any youth soccer anywhere played that I know about. The parents should have moved when told to. This is Rec and U9 to boot. Parents/coaches/players/ and, unfortunately, many referees at this level are clueless how to act and how to behave. I like Ref Fleischer's advice. Most U Little parents think this is Little League baseball and they are allowed to treat the referee like spoiled brats. many referees at this level are young and inexperienced and don't know how to quiet down a hostile situation. EVERYONE at this level seems to forget they are all there for the benefit of the KIDS trying to enjoy playing soccer. I have refereed far over 500 games at all levels of play up to adult league and to date, the only coaches I have had to expell from the field have been U-11 or under. I think your punishment was nuts but you shouldn't confront any referee who is already not happy with the behavior of your parents. It will only make things worse. Your parent coming onto the field and berating the referee was idiotic and only caused you to get worse punishment as you are responsible for your parents. My advice to you is get your parents together, tell them they are not allowed to talk to the referee at all, that the referee is there to regulate the game to the best of his ability for the enjoyment of their children, that children do NOT enjoy trying to play soccer while their parents are making fools of themselves, that the parents are to be respectful and quiet no matter what they think of the referee and to remind them the only person involved with the game that actually knows what the rules are is the referee.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

HI Darin,
It is a sad situation when controversy at a u-9 match breaks out because quidelines that could control this or at least limit it with preseason instructions and forceful league policy in season as to approach disagreements is not in place!

This use of cards against coaches is to bolster the courage and backbone of the younger or inexperiance referees who drop out of soccer because of these very sour politics of obnoxious behaviour. While it is understanadble to look for retention in officials this policy is contrary to the laws of the game as cards are shown only to players or rostered substuitutes.

CONTROVERSY generates ugly sensations and I suppose a coloured card is much simpler than a reasoned calm voice in an upsetting situation where tempers are on edge.

Holding a coach accountable is one thing, making him totally responsible for all idiotic actions by eveyone is not fair in my opinion. I expect a coach to act in the interests of fairplay and to do his part as a referee must do his, to keep the match from flushing itself down the toilet.

A referee, especially young and inexperianced will feel persecuted when there are hostile or negative comments directed at him or the game in general. Even if you think you are acting reasonably a referee may view everyone as a threat and the accumulated irritation of many does not exclude barking at the wrong person for an innocent comment.

Finding shade on a hot day is hardly grounds for removal but depending on the proximity to the goal and the TYPE of comments stemming from that location I suppose the referee felt action was warranted! Generally we like to keep the keepers free from unwarranted distractions. If the location was the issue, a word to vacate BEFORE the game could be in order.

Effective game and player management policy does require experiance and understanding of the human pandoras box of emotions. The character and composure required is not an instananous transformation yet perfection is expected and we are to steadily improve if those watching had thier way!

As a coach, MY parents either conduct themselves appropriately or they are not permitted to accompany their son or daughter to the games. If they show up their offspring does not play! We have comment cards distributed to our parents which are used and turned in after a match. They can choose to discuss the referee, my handling of the players, concern for their child, suggest league policy, the state of the fields but they are there to praise and support their child not berate the referee or offer new and inovative coaching techniques at least not at the game!

WE are aware that certain referees foster upon themselves unneccessary hardships but those watching seem to thrive on the tear down of any power structure found wanting. Yes a referee should go through the coach when touchline problems are in progress but no coach should consider informing the referee, sugar and honey not a wine and bitters will get you greater leeway. The fact is an aggitated referee is not a person to further antagonize reguarless of how rightous your stand is. This guy can expell you from the field. He may abuse that power but he does have it and while no one should look to kiss the buttocks neither cast gas on a fire!

I go into bite my lip mode once a month to be sure , some times every five minutes but I record report and hope the advice I send along comes to some use. FIX the problem rather than point the finger of blame!

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 14483