Question Number: 35674

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 8/28/2024

RE: Under 18

Bob of New york, New York USA asks...

This is a clip of a handball in a youth game. Whether or not this is a penalty, would you give this a SPA yellow card regardless? The defender seems to move his arm deliberately towards the ball, so that removes the new law change about downgrading “non-deliberate” PK handballs, and if that ball passes the defender, it’s going to a right forward who has a wide open box in front of him. I think this is 100% a SPA YC if it’s determined to be outside the box, but could even be one if a PK is given

https://streamable.com/hulcyw

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Bob
Thanks for the question and the video

The video is from a distance and somewhat unclear.
Personally I think this could be a non deliberate handling as the Blue defender in his attempt to kick the ball seems to raises his arm for what looks like to me balance to kick the ball. He has certainly made his body bigger with his arm raised and well away from the body and a handling is justified.
I also think that it is not particularly egregious and a card may not required on a penalty kick. For a free kick it could be stopping a promising attack although there is discretion.
A test I like to challenge referees on is whether they would send the player off for a second caution for this offence.

The parts that jumped out at me in the video is that the referee is too far away from the action and too central. The referee needed to be much closer and on the diagonal.
The other part is depending on the pre match instructions the incident is also too far away from the assistant and out of an assistant’s *area of control* provided of course the centre is closer to where the action is. If I was a referee here and say 10 yards from this looking straight at it I would not want an assistant flagging.
In addition it looks like it is a free kick outside the penalty area based on the action of the AR and the signal of the referee? It looks like inside to me yet that is where the AR is more important to assist with that call.

But hey a straw poll of referees would not come up with unanimity that a card is required based on the new advice. Some may even feel that it was not deliberate handling. Many may revert to the way it was or were missing for that particular advice training session when making their decision.
I also believe that incidents in isolation are not good for law advice as there will be multiple factors at play in games such as score, time in the game, mood of the game, is it a 2nd yellow, is it a penalty, is it totally deliberate rather than “non deliberate” handling, age group etc as to a card decision.
I’m not an advocate of rote refereeing except where the Law gives no discretion with a *must* decision.
So here I would not be harsh on a referee for no card or for issuing a card. On a previous question I referred to these type of calls as being in the grey zone. I would not challenge a referee on a caution for SPA although I might in a penalty situation see it as non deliberate and no card is required like the genuine attempt to play the ball.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Bob,
given the propensity to call every arm/ball contact as a foul I can see 90% of all officials eager to blow the whistle with no consideration that the attempt by the defender to kick a ball was missed by a fairly harsh bounce because the hands extended for balance had definitely made the defender bigger. While it is a fairly long camera video shot it does appear as if the hand reactively slaps the ball downwards. That alone is the sole reason I could see this as a DFK because no effort was made to pull away once the ball was in touch with the arm.

So the defender had no real intent to handle the ball, but misjudging the bounce created this problem where he instinctively batted the ball, which the referee must now decided as to how big this problem will be!

The idea that it "MUST" be a caution does not set well with me because it is doubtful this situation was created with anything in the defender's mind but clearing the ball away rather than ensuring the ball never made it to another attacker. Now by removing intent as a precursor to determining there is a foul, we can still apply some common sense to the need to caution at every contact.

I like the condition that my colleague attached that if it was a 2nd caution thus expulsion reduce the team by a player would you see it as an effective deterrent or punishment? I think a PK without a caution and while I might not caution show the yellow card for the DFK outside. I could see others quick to do so!

I too personally see a distinction between a deliberate reach out to stop a ball from entering a goal or stopping a pass versus an accidental mistake while trying to clear or kick the ball that for easy distinction is now claimed as a DFK foul due to reactionary or instinctive movements. The age, skill levels, field conditions, score lines just be sure to maintain the neutrality of your decisions in applying the LOTG in the same manner.

I would be ok for a DFK or PK if it was inside the PA as the ball location when the arm contact occurs is the foul location. That is not arbitrary, either the ball is in the PA yes it is thus PK or is not decision thus a DFK just outside the PA boundary with NO overhanging portion. If any part of that ball was inside the PA or if hovering over that 5 inch PA boundary line a handling DFK becomes a PK.

The AR is looking correctly positioned to determine that part as to foul location but the the CR should be the one signaling the handling! THEN the AR flag up in support. If the CR signals foul the AR then indicates by positional set up if he thought the ball was handled inside the PA thus gets ready for a PK. If AR thought as you, to indicate that a caution was required, after eye contact with the CR, you tap the shirt pocket.

I know that unknown mitigating factors making arm chair observations that differ from real time decisions are not always aware. I refereed tournaments where 3 to 5 matches a day over 3 days so my positioning was at times geared to how much trust I had in my ARS as well as staying slightly more central even if I tried to angle and bracket play. The CR here was in my opinion too far away, should be on a line similar to where the ball path took.
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe Manjone

Bob,

Since this may be a high school game and/or you most likely referee high school games, I believe this would be called handling in a high school game.

As indicated in NFHS Rule 18-1-1v handling occurs when the hand or arm shall move toward the ball, or the hand or arm shall be carried in an unnatural position before an infraction of the rule occurs.

In this case, the arm was in an unnatural position when the ball hit it. Also, it appears the hand was moved upward into the path of the ball. Both would result in a handling call.

I hope you have a very successful fall season.