Question Number: 34913

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 3/11/2023

Crebs Crem of Zagreb, Croatia asks...

This question is a follow up to question 34910

Hi,

What if it is a save by the goalkeeper instead of a rebound from the goal post?

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

Hi Crebs,

Interesting question.

The LOTG states that the handling is an offence if that player scores a goal immediately after.

What does immediately mean? Well, unfortunately they didn't clarify that.

I would say that a save or even deflection off an opponent could still mean it is immediate - I personally don't see why it should be any different to a deflection off the goal post.

The intention of the law is still that a player shouldn't be able to score from their own handling, accidental or not. So, with that being the intent of the law, I personally think this would still result in a disallowed goal.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Crebs,
in my opinion, still no goal as the sequence of play is a result of the control created by the accidental handling.
Where it gets convoluted is if the save goes to a different player who then quote ("immediately scores") unquote .

This use of the word "immediate" in the explanation has us wondering are we over extending time to accommodate circumstances? If Player A attacker has a through ball that accidently contacts his arm at the edge of the goal area, he shoots, ball rebounds off keeper, goes to attacker B who scores. Given its not player A is the goal now ok? Or given it occurred quickly and resulted in part of that initial control contact on the arm? Not ok? We are aware if the accidental ball to arm contact happened outside the PA and then the shot or cross was from outside and a save resulted or another teammate received that ball, who then scored, it was not immediate in the sense of timing so that goal should be allowed!

Like if I trip an attacker, who falls and gets up as the ball hits his arm he shoots and scores. That DFK trip, possible PK, is ahead of the DFK handling for no goal. Why there is so much confusion is technically a ball hitting the arm is NOT considered a foul, it is only a solution for perceived injustice . Perhaps by making it a mandatory stoppage only if a goal is scored
it assists in not having to make arbitrary calls DFK out on the FOP where we can ignore it as we should unless blatantly obvious as deliberate.

It is a STUPID law that simply takes the decision away from a referee to use their judgement. If a player scores from a ball that accidently hits his arm if that player or team feels it was unjust they could permit the other team to score an equalizer. Or simply tell the referee he did handle it on purpose as one with integrity does!

In my time as a referee these past 50 odd years I have seen the best and worst of sportsmanship on display. You can not regulate everything perfectly. Yet it seems in this effort to minimize dissent they keep whittling down the character of the individuals entrusted to keep it fair!

My favorite go to video that I use to to reinvigorate my love of the game is the respect and admiration I have for this man Esse Barhamast

Esse was a referee that we can only hope to learn from, to see how he managed the games at the top level you can only get better using his experiences to make better decision's

Best known for whistling the correct penalty kick call during Norway's win over Brazil that stirred world-wide controversy and headlines at the 1998 World Cup, Baharmast cannot be defined by just that moment. His impact domestically and internationally in the way he has conducted himself as a role model and as a mentor to so many people around the world it's pretty phenomenal.

If you pay attention to Brazil's first goal it is one of the best examples of intelligent use of advantage in real time! Admittedly I find few WC referees in todays game have the class and stature that Collina & Baharmast were able to carry onto the FOP. I believe VAR is undercutting the judgements and weakening the decisions of the referees as much as they seek to get the decisions correct!

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lNODXuA6k

Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Crebs
Thanks for the follow up.
To me it is still "Immediately scores" off a rebound from a save. It will still be in the same window of time of shot, rebound, shot and it makes no difference that the rebound is off an opponent or the frame of the goal.