Question Number: 33608

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 8/31/2019

RE: Travel Under 13

ED of Cleveland, OH USA asks...

I am a coach, parent and former Grade 8 ref. I was just having a post-mortem with the head ref of a U12 game in which one team consistently initiated defensive player-to-player contact when the defender did not have a play on the ball. For example, shoulder checking the player with the ball from behind, or, more dangerously IMHO, charging in to knock the player in possession off the before before attempting to play the ball. Or more innocuously shielding the ball by planting feet and standing in opponent's path rather than playing the ball (in the last case, I more or less agreed with the head ref that it should be called when the shielding player is in playing distance of the ball, but I maintain that the ref has authority to use judgement about whether the player actually is attempting to play the ball or not... and you really can tell because if they are paying 100% attention to blocking and 0% to the ball, I would call that impeding). It is my opinion that in the youth game, any time a kid is put to the ground by a shoulder charge, it is dangerous. Head to ground contact is potentially concussive. Kids get stepped on and kicked. Etc. But I see so-called experts using a 'bright line' rule that 'contact by shoulder' is allowed. I would say that a better interpretation of the laws of the game would be that 'contact by shoulder incidental to play on the ball' is allowed. To a defender catching a player from behind, this is the difference between (1) the ball is playable vs. (2) the ball is playable only if I knock the other player off their line first.

The head ref in the game I watched would not call any fouls for contact that was 'shoulder to shoulder'. The most egregious non-call, in my opinion, was two defenders charging (IMHO recklessly) in to a player with possession from opposites sides and shoulder tackling her from both sides in a sandwich. It was rugby not soccer, full stop. The player who had possession went down in the box and there was no call. TWe never see cards in youth soccer in the US, but in this case, I would have awarded the PK, and if there was no other defenders in the box, I would issue a card for denial of goal scoring opportunity. Because 2 defenders committed to the foul, rather than positioned themselves between the ball and the goal. However the head ref was adamant that it wasn't even a foul due to the contact being shoulder to shoulder.


I am very eager to hear expert opinions on this. I am repeatedly disappointed to see match after match where less skilled rugby style of play is able to compensate for lack of speed and footskills by knocking around the other team. Never do I see referees step in to restore control and keep things safe. The result is that there are more even scores (unless the team playing rugby also has more speed and skill). Also frequently I see the team who is on the receiving end starts retaliating back with all kinds of fouls (having not been finely coached in the art of body-blasting with the shoulder) and the game turns into rubbish.

I'll also invite discussion here about how these rock-em-sock-em body checks relate to the absence of slide tackles in the youth game. I think, whereas a slide tackle will be called for a foul 9 of 10 times if the player in possession goes to ground (even if they just trip on the ball), a hard shoulder check that knocks the opponent to ground is almost never called. Can this situation be remedied by having a more bright line approach to when to call a slide tackle. I think a bright line rule for the youth game -- you must contact the ball first for a legal slide tackle -- would be very helpful...

Answer provided by Referee Peter Grove

Hi Ed,
It's clear you have a keen interest in the game from a number of different points of view, for which we should commend you. The game is always in need of more people to get involved with it, especially at 'grass roots' level.

When it comes to shoulder charges, you are certainly right that not every charge that is 'shoulder to shoulder' is necessarily a fair and legal charge. Referees should use the normal criteria that apply to all challenges and not allow the ones that are careless, reckless or use excessive force.

If the challenges/shoulder charges that you're referring to fall into those definitions, a foul should be called. On the other hand, if the shoulder charge does not rise to even the minimum level of careless, then it is not a foul. And just as every shoulder charge that is shoulder to shoulder is not automatically fair, we should bear in mind that neither is it necessarily a foul just because the opponent ends up on the deck.

So long as referees stick to what the law tells us and apply the proper criteria, things should be OK. It's only when referees do not follow the law that a problem arises.

Similarly for slide tackles - they can be fair or foul, depending on their exact nature and once again, if the referee applies the correct criteria and punishes those that are careless, reckless or use excessive force while allowing those that do not fall into those categories, everything in the garden should be rosy.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

HI Ed ,
first off it is great to see individuals giving of their time and energy for the kids to play the game. AS in any sport the referee is require to learn the game just as the players do and quite often at the youth level not every referee is an experienced well seasoned arbitrator of foul recognition. Just as it takes time and training to become proficient at the playing the game so to in refereeing it.

It does take a degree of understanding in how we tend to interpret what a fair charge is versus an unfair charge when it comes to the use of the shoulder. Keep in mind that impeding with contact is a DFK NOT an INDFK

For the record a slide tackle MUST ALWAYS make contact with the ball BEFORE the player to be considered fair. EVEN if that contact with the ball is made first the way in which the tackle is performed can still be judged as inappropriate if it clearly is designed to take out the player in a careless , reckless or excessive manner .

Yet in saying that I have seen some very clean well executed tackles that knock the ball away fairly and the upright player falls down. The match referee will award a nonsensical foul for a good tackle because he determines the player who actually FELL over or on the sliding player was tripped HUGE difference yet many referees will award a foul just because the fall is WRONGLY classified as a trip. . These referees incorrectly assess these situations by not understanding that the tackler clearly played the ball there was no intention for the tackler to crush the upright player by going through him.
It is also plausible that the upright player upon seeing a slide tackle heading to a ball out on front will then DELIBERATELY move or extend the nearest leg in towards the tackler to block the tackle CREATING the contact. Referees who recognize what players can do work very hard at getting to good angles , to anticipate,to be effective in their foul recognition.

So lets get back to the use of the shoulder.

The LOTG state it is possible to FAIRLY charge an opponent if they are challenging for ball within playing distance. Playing distance is not an EXACT distance but lets say it is about two paces away at the speed of play. Meaning the faster it is the longer it could be.
The interpretative advise regarding foul recognition is CLEAR. It is plausible for two players to sandwich an opponent using the fair charge protocols simultaneously.

'Physical challenge against an opponent, usually using the shoulder and upper arm (which is kept close to the body)''

The same LOTG also states it is only an offence to charge an opponent if it is done, in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force. This is where I suspect you as an observer are wondering what is being considered as fair or WHY is not more consideration being given for what is unfair?

I can only speak to the fact that foul recognition is as much art as science and while training, mentoring and a proper attitude on the part of those officials who take their efforts seriously will be a good way to address these inconsistencies so to will the attitude and opinions of those watching must also understand that we need to agree to disagree and move on despite these inconsistencies.

You could be 100% correct, that many of these hard contacts at poor angles are not being addressed as a foul that should be. This is where a fully engaged soccer association has the where-all to enable these communicative assets in a way that enrich the association not tear it apart in blame or failure to excuse poor results or behavior. It is why I suggest group meetings and seminars where referees coaches, players and parents meet to discuss the concerns we all have. Codes of conduct contracts that outline expected behaviors and responsibilities, proper reporting forms that indicate GOOD as well as bad, that are not ignored , videos of matches , refereeing training programs , interactive seminars, quality mentoring and assessment procedures in effect.

The shoulder charge is more often a matter of physics and location. You can not fault a large player if a smaller player just bounces off him even if you would watch closely how the larger player approached the smaller one in terms of the force used.
It is very difficult to shoulder charge a tall player if you are short or a short player if you are tall. In one you must jump up, the other you push down. Both are foul behavior, You can not target the back of the shoulder nor can you ram into the chest , both are foul behavior.


When looking at a fair shoulder challenge vs a charge we should be cognizant the amount of force we might tolerate in adult can be a recipe for disaster in youth

The legal charge like, a legal slide tackle has risks that COULD take it from fair to foul depending on how it is done and the degree of force utilized.
An allowable fair charge is when the players make shoulder to shoulder contact in an upright position when within playing distance of the ball, have at least one foot on the ground and their arms held close to the side. Players intersecting as a V wedge versus the 90% versus hard right angles have an easier chance of being fair because the pushing aspect of a right angle charge at speed is quite destructive.

If you stand still, have a person push you straight away to the side with his free hand on your shoulder . . Try this with both your feet tight together or just raise the INSIDE Foot lifted high up by your knee just like it might be if you were running, chances are you will be bowled over . However, if you were to stand with both feet spread wide or like a stork with the outside leg lifted that lifted leg foot would drop down to cover that jarring push and you likely remain upright .

https://twitter.com/rtegaa/status/371645762448281600

Tom Cunniffe and Peter Harte go shoulder to shoulder but Harte left injured. This was a HARD LEGAL tackle look at their faces.

Players running at near the same speed who lean into one another is VERY different than intersecting at high speed that creams out an unwary dribbler. Players can come together quite hard and quite fair but it has equatable forces at play.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOVChbC216I

Here is an example where the referee has determined it was a foul, not all agree. I see it as plausible to be a more resolute attacker being stronger on the ball but there is room to think the free arm pushed and the inside leg tripped.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/video-of-shoulder-charge.2058389/

Here is a larger stout player leaning in but note the contact is NOT shoulder to shoulder but into the breast/chest and note the eyes there was no doubt the player was a target

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUsMp66ez4

clear foul this one interesting the free arm extra is certainly wrong but note that it shows the inside leg is up and how off balanced the defender was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t42igo7HlM0

clear foul push from behind

Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Ed
Let us deal with the easy parts first
Contact on a player in a slide challenge before playing the ball is an offence and indeed if the slide is careless, reckless it is an offence either way. I hear players say all the time I got the the ball ref to which I reply *yeah but you got the player first* * or what has it to do with the ball* when it is plainly reckless.
The difficulty for the referee is depending on angle of view is seeing when the contact on the player occurred. Sometimes it will look like it is fair yet may not be.
As to the use of the shoulder the game allows the use of a fair charge and for Underage that is always a difficulty. The Laws tells us that a charge is a physical challenge against an opponent, usually using the shoulder and upper arm (which is kept close to the body) yet it also tells us that the same charge if it us careless or reckless is an offence.
The Laws also tells us that Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed while Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned.
Now the difficulty for the game is bringing consistency to what is meant by careless or reckless.
Our site gets regular questions on charging and it is a topic that is very much in the opinion of the referee. A trip is a trip no matter what level of trip yet a shoulder to shoulder charge can be viewed as careless by one referee while another may see it as legal.

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