Question Number: 32305

Law 11 - Offside 3/14/2018

RE: Pro Adult

AEK Fan Club of NY of New York, New York USA asks...

This question is a follow up to question 32302

To answer your question about the AR's initial reaction, the word is that he told the referee 'it is offside, but how can you call it under these circumstances (meaning venue, timing etc)

The same referee allowed the other offside goal, in the other question I posted (QUESTION NUMBER: 32303)
Between the same teams, a year ago.
So you can understand the psychological pressure.

So to recap, you still stand by your initial assessment that the PIOP is offside as he is participating?
Thank you

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi
I would say that there has been a significant amount of hearsay, innuendo, fake news etc since the game. I would doubt that an assistant would say that it was offside yet fail to call it. Sure what is the point of being there and such an alleged comment is likely to result in immediate sanction by refereeing authorities. In addition there appears to be all sorts of reports some of which are extremely doubtful of being official reports. One report that I read which is alleged to have come from the referee bears no relation to what is on the video so I have serious doubt about its veracity.
I think that had the flag popped up immediately there would have been less reaction to it.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Just to be clear here , I have NO IDEA what was said to who or by who with any certainty HOWEVER, I can tell you the AR by his ACTIONS on the FOP indicated immediately that the goal was OK in his eyes because his reaction was the ONE TAUGHT to ARs how to do so. UPON the ball entering the goal he ran up the touchlines towards the top of the PA to prepare for a kick off.

IF he thought it was OFFSIDE he MUST raise the flag!

THAT did not happen!

IF he thought it might be offside and wanted to talk to the CR he is to STAND still, wait, get eye contact flag across his body and call him over.

Those actions were not done, it was the rush up the touchline which is easily seen is what he did. THUS I conclude he initially felt the goal was ok as
that is what his actions say! I have no idea what he spoke about!

If I was CR & the AR rushing up the touchlines then spouted into the radio, 'I think it was offside!' We would have a very animated post game conversation about signals. .

I concur if the flag HAD been popped at the critical moment this incident has WAY less impact then the way that it occurred! Referee and AR mechanics are taught to help prevent controversy and add consistency.

While it is true there is no proof or guarantee that had the AR flagged or stood still that this situation does not goes ballistic but it stands to reason those playing prefer definite decision than a changed one. Yet if we have no faith in the neutrality or integrity of our officials in their quest to get the RIGHT decision, even if a bit muddled, what does it say about the character of those playing or watching ?

Given what I saw in real time from the camera angles I saw I have no issues with an offside call. PERHAPS other camera angles could make a bigger difference . Do you recall ESSE iBaharmast n 1998 at the world cup in France ? Penalty Imaginare? He was vilified and cussed and being sent packing until 2 days later ! A camera from a tiny Scandinavian TV network showed EXACTLY what he said he saw YET up until them very few believed him. BECAUSE NONE of the cameras were at the right angle or time sweep
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lNODXuA6k
There are HUGE biases when you review a REAL TIME Event into a breakdown of frame by frame footage slow motion. People have to learn to conduct themselves better there is simply no excuse for the mentality of those watching or playing to so affected by power, money & glory that a single very human decision made can create such ugliness within our nature!

Let me ask anyone what difference offside or onside means to those in Syria or the drought nations in Africa? The starving people around the world. The neighbourhoods of the street gang fighting or drug cartels? Those trapped in poverty, sex slavery and prostitution? Football aka Soccer here, it's a bloody game, enjoy it! There are so many other things to despair over !
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Peter Grove

Hi,
In common with my colleagues, I would have to treat these alleged remarks by the AR with a healthy dose of scepticism. Not only are they at odds with his actions at the time but also (and much more significantly) they contradict the contents of the referee's report which has been published in a number of different Greek media outlets. I am not sure if the report was officially released or just leaked to the press, though I suspect the latter.

According to these reports (if accurate) the referee stated as follows:

''I first raised my hand indicating an offside offense, and after consulting my assistant to confirm if the goal was valid or not (i.e. offside or not) I decided to award it.''

As can be inferred from this, the AR informed the referee at the time that the goal was good so any allegation that he told the referee it was offside but should be allowed anyway, would seem to be wide of the mark. The published report further states:

''Afterwards, I decided to stop the match permanently, informing the team representatives that at that time the score was 1-0 in favor of the home team.''

The Associated Press is also carrying reports that the referee's report says that after he decided to allow the goal and following the pitch invasion(s) he abandoned the match with the score at 1-0 to PAOK.

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

The word is? What word? By who? A guy who heard from a guy who's brother's cousin was right there?
Given how heated reactions were, I wouldn't even trust any of the players mobbing the AR and referee at the time to remember what was said.
What those comments are alleging doesn't make any sense - no official is going to say 'it's not a goal, but it's a big crowd today, so let's allow it'. That smells a lot like somebody has made up a story to discredit the officials.

This is a definite offside for me.
How can the keeper dive properly for the ball when there is an opponent standing in the spot he could be leaping into? As the keeper starts his move, the attacker actually starts to move for the ball. This is definitely going to be playing into the keeper's mind who has to consider the risks of overcommitting when an attacker is there, as well as the risk of getting kicked in the head.
Some would argue that the keeper didn't reach the ball. I'd suggest that maybe he could have dived further, maybe he didn't - but given the attacker was there I don't think he had the opportunity to.
Given the proximity to the ball and the keeper, and the movement towards the ball, I'm very firmly on the 'no goal' camp.

Answer provided by Referee MrRef

According to those who give the orders.


In contacting those on the FIFA / IFAB referee committee the apparent consensus is

Hi, this clip has gone around the world. There is an action by the attacker that impacts on the defender and for consistency sake and uniformity it is an offside for interfering with the opponent. Yes, it is grey, but more offside than not.

It is apparent that a great deal of pressure & innuendoes are being directed to and at and from officials & various agencies to find fault rather than solutions. The REAL tragedy here is not a screw up of miscommunication, it is the blatant hostility and vindictiveness of taking a simple matter of a decision based on an opinion into the dark side of human nature. A referee can be held accountable for a job performance, however, he should not have to worry about his or his family welfare & safety over a decision in a game. IF so then there is something wrong with the game!


from our pitch to your pitch in the spirit of fair play

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 32310