Question Number: 30097

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 2/10/2016

RE: competitive under 21 league Adult

peter dickinson of sandbach, cheshire United Kingdom asks...

This question is a follow up to question 30094

Thank you for your prompt replies which are very helpful.

This is an under 21 league with 3 over age players.

To clarify the situation one of our players retaliated to a hit on the back of the head. The pair exchanged punches none of which was seen immediately by the ref. My grandson (the captain who is not a vicious person) went to break it up, as I have told him he should, by grabbing our player, the trio fell to the floor at which point the ref observed the action both our offending player and captain then received punches on the floor. It is not exactly clear from that point what went on but another of our players tried to stop this and may have thrown a punch. At this point our original offending player got up and allegedly kicked the attacking opposition player. All hell then broke loose and a mass attack from the opposition took place with two or three of our players EACH surrounded by at least three opposition players who had lost it. At this point spectators from both sides intervened to break it up. It was obvious to all that the game could not continue and the referee was en encouraged to ban the opposition from the league in view of such a tribal vicious reaction.

The FA have issued a three match ban to our captain as an aggressor which is completely wrong. Our manager has stated that this is wrong and we believe he also has the opinion of another match referee on an adjacent pitch who observed the melee.

As a spectator no doubt I cannot see the refs report and I trust the manager will be able to get the captains ban rescinded. However if he fails what course of action is open to us to prevent a miscarriage of justice as we do not wish to sue but will if we have to.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

HI Pete,
as I said we can hope the truth comes out once all have given their information. The unfortunate fact though is the truth is at times only a perception of what one was CONVINCED they thought they saw, especially if (a) the did not see all events leading up to something) AND (b) from their angle of view things might have looked different. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and if a AR or referee sees players engaged they often might be UNAWARE of their motives and a referee or AR as neutral official with integrity sees what they see even if we see it differently. It sounds like you should direct a bit of your disappointment and anger against the idiot doing all the punching and kicking off your team. I realize a captain is to set an example but getting involved in a fight even if the intention was honorable is risky. It maybe because of the eventual abandonment your captain was seen as an original instigator and the fact that everyone got into it was just too difficult to assign additional blame so he gets scapegoated .

The referee has ZERO to do with banning teams or players he only files a match report indicating his decisions for the match itself, it is the league or association which applies the ban, penalties, fines etc...

This might be a perceived injustice on your part but also a lesson for your team in general that when one member decides to react it CAN affect the entire team. Let the referee/ARs be the ones to punish foul play. Have your captain talk to the referee when things out of view occur. As a rule we are not so blind as not to realize we can miss stuff, it is just that we do not enjoy being targeted as biased if we miss something. We listen to a modicum of dissent as it tells us what we might be missing, a calm rational point brought to our attention at an appropriate moment and time, is weighed and measured to the degree of actionable information we might have to say remind our ARs to look for off the ball incidents in behind play.

In a hard fought physical match I was being warned that tempers were getting hot, I had a player come up to me at the half (he never spoke just glared at me) and pull down his sock to show the cleat marks near his ankle still raw and bleeding apparently from a defender who was sneakily stepping on him at corners. So a the start of the 2nd half I whistled if so much as I smelled bad breath when two players came together. The first ten minutes were a clamp down so tight that the players realized the match had turned into something different. Two quick yellow cards and several stoppages they got the message. They played soccer not looking for tit for tat. and yes I got the sneaky player inside his PA for a PK for whacking at the back of a player.

The moment the players take action themselves they create the situation you now find yourself in, unpleasant and unfortunately full of unintended consequences no matter who the finger of blame is directed at! I can tell you I think it unwise to sue, just follow up the procedures your association has access to through the FA. As for a miscarriage of justice, the captain choose to take an action you told him was necessary, it had an unintended consequence, life is neither fair or unfair just possibilities. A true miscarriage of justice is the garbage of the middle east, on a soccer pitch this is just a bit of bad luck!
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Peter
In a recent game that I was involved in a somewhat similar event happened. Anyway the captain tried to pull away / apart the players and he got involved with a smack on the nose for his troubles. I sent off the two players and the captain was none too happy as he felt his player was only defending himself. He himself was in a right state having got involved in the scuffle. Had I not seen the initial offence or had the trio been on the ground the captain was somewhat overly robust in his efforts to stop the fight resulting in him shipping a wack to the face and sometimes perhaps the peacemaker can be seen as a heavy handed aggressor. Watching police officers break up fights on the web can be viewed as overly aggressive and it can look like VC. I am reminded also of the player/s that confront spectators that run on to the field of play. Even while good intentioned to stop the spectator some of those actions ended up as violent conduct. When one does know the intention one can only look at the situation as to how it presents. A brawl with three players on the ground may not look, with arms flailing and punches being traded, that one of the trio is a peacemaker.
Now in your case when the trio fell to the ground with blows being traded it would be difficult to perhaps discern who is trying to stop the violence and who is acting as the aggressors particularly when the initial event was not seen properly.
So three matches would be a normal suspension for violent conduct which is probably what was reported. That was the suspension for the duo in my case and more than likely the player that the captain in my scenario was pulling off feels somewhat hard done by as he was not the instigator of the brawl yet it was his minor initial action that kicked it off. You use the term aggressor. There are differing levels of VC from a slap, throat grab to to all out brawling. You do not mention if there was higher sanction for some of the other players who certainly acted in a shameful fashion, kicking players etc.
Now any suspension can be appealed to the next level and that must be done quickly within 7 days. The club will be aware of the procedure.
A word of advice. This is football and my view is that we must respect and work within the football community. While the rules, procedures are premised on a legal basis Im never happy when I hear talk of legal challenges and suing. There are plenty legal firms out there who are quite happy to act in litigation which is expensive and onerous and the remedies are quite limited and lengthy to achieve. My advice is to exhaust the procedures open to the club through the FA.

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