Question Number: 29415

Law 11 - Offside 5/17/2015

RE: Rec Under 13

Brad of Plymouth, Michigan United States asks...

I was CR for a U-12 Girls Rec game, with my son as AR1. Red team was running a consistent trap the whole game, and gray was getting trapped regularly.

Gray striker (who is fast and dangerous) is indisputably in an offside position when gray keeper punts a thundering punt that bounces just past midfield. Red defender tries unsuccessfully to play the ball, and the ball (with topspin) strikes ground, hits her, and bounces over her to gray striker for what would be a breakaway attempt from 30 yards away.

AR (my son) raises flag, indicating offside. I double-check 'Are you sure?' and he affirms 'absolutely' so I stay with his call, much to gray's disappointment.

I confirmed post-game his logic, but now we want confirmation. His logic was that red defender--though it had touched her--had not had any control, therefore there was not a 'reset' from GK's last touch, so 'Offside'. Certainly if red had been in the box and the ball had deflected off her from a shot, it would be offside. But in the case of a midfield (unsuccessful) attempt to intercept, does this still apply? On reflection, it seems the right call was made, but we can't find good confirmation on this particular situation in the literature.

Thank you for this great site--we're having fun with father-and-son bonding over reffing (and he's happy making some really good money as an 11 year old)!

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Brad
The answer lies in the manner of the touch by the Red defender. Now we know that offside is not reset off a deflection / rebound by an opponent whereas a deliberate play does. Now in the past control was the defining consideration on the contact whereas current advice is that once the play is deliberate control is no longer a factor.
Now a word of caution on the use of control in offside thinking. A deliberate play can have a distinct lack of control such as a misplay. That is still a reset with the one exception of a save. At half way it is not a save. It has also been pointed out that deflections / rebounds by their nature happen off a fast moving ball that the opponent does not have time to react to through a deliberate play.
I suspect that with the ball bouncing up, touching the defender does not read like a deliberate play so offside would appear to be the correct call. At Under 12 girls I would also take into account the skill level in the calculation.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Brad ,
it is totally cool this interaction you have going with your son. There are no instructions given with kids, as parents we try to muddle through, relying on the sometimes sketchy stories of others about what to do and why. I find it admirable you both can share in something together, have fun and pocket a few coins along the way lol When I was refereeing during my kids growing up years, my sons and daughter played. Often I officiated them in the community league, coached them often in the travel leagues. As part of the travel team I used to make it mandatory all players had to take and pass the referee examine and officiate within the local league, a certain number of games. My kids and players were instilled with and developed great respect for those who officiated . Understanding the difficulties referees often endured by... walking in dem shoes.... as it were.
The only word of caution is, when instilling your joy be sure it does not overwhelm theirs. Otherwise enjoy!

Offside has undergone some rephrasing as of late and a few of the old ideas and myths still cling to the interpretations of this law.
Your initial phrase, red unsuccessfully tried to play the ball, sets up a warning sign, in it sounds as if she was in fact ...deliberately playing the ball... and made a mistake. We generally do not reward player's mistakes.
Then you say the ball hits her!
My colleague Ref McHugh makes a valid point, we often lean a bit towards the deflection/rebound based on the skill level of those play.

Think on it as similar to a DH (deliberate handling) where we judge if the ball hits the arm as no foul versus if the players arm hits the ball as foul. Here we are judging if the players actions are deliberate in playing the ball or is the ball simply impacting off her body because it comes in too fast, blindsided, crowded out by nearby players, the ball flight is erratic changes direction unexpectedly. This bounce off the ground might be explained as this!

Deliberately playing the ball is a ball played with a conscious decision and realization of the consequences of action
Deliberately playing the ball involves a conscious act of a player whereby his making contact with the ball with his feet, head, hands or body was the result of him initiating a sequence of events in a timely manner!
There is no guarantee of control or possession in a deliberate action. It does involve a PHYSICAL touch of the ball
A miss kick or poor header is more often a MISTAKE made when choosing to deliberately play the ball!
We do not award offside for a mistake, if it was a DELIBERATE PLAY!
HOWEVER, the position or movement of the feet or head, hands or body apparently trying to react does not necessarily mean the ball was deliberately played !

Below is a list of criteria one can use to determine a ...deliberate play... from an ...impact... creating a deflection or a rebound?

�DISTANCE: How far away is the ball? ?
�FLIGHT PATH: Is the ball's speed, direction, or angle altered on its way towards the player?
�SPEED: How fast is that ball moving?
�SPACE: is there room to react?
�TIME: Is there time to prepare?
�IMPACT: Does the ball strike the player, without the player being aware or time to react?

An impact is NOT deliberately playing the ball, nor a mistake, it is either
{a} rebound which is a ball that bounces back after impacting a hard surface or
{b} deflection which is a ball that alters it trajectory or being caused to change direction upon impact.

I love the idea of you having a post game review and if you work with your son as CR or as AR just remember who is in charge. Your match Your decision Your reputation lol
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

I had the same thing happen to me in a match this week. If the ball deflects off of the defender, then offside is the correct call. If the defender deliberately tried to play the ball, but misplayed it in a favorable direction for the offside position attacker, then flag down. This is all of course in the opinion of the referee. I would use the criteria mentioned above by referee Dawson. This is one of those things that many referees are still confused on. I know many referees that I instruct/assess are still unsure of exactly how to apply this...but we need to all get on the same page.

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

As my colleagues remarked, it depends on whether you decided it was a deflection/rebound or a play. Given that it's U12 rec, I'd be more inclined to call it a deflection unless I saw the girl clearly try to play the ball (just badly).

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 29422