Question Number: 29347

League Specific 4/23/2015

RE: Saturday over 40s Adult

David of middlesbrough, cleveland england asks...

when receiving a yellow card for dissent, walking away speaking to my team manager the referee the gave me a second yellow, until now I had no idiot why, in his report he has stated I called him a f**** P*** when in fact I didn't as I was in the middle of an argument with my team manager and had no idiot he had given me a second yellow, how can he give a second yellow for a conversation that was not directed at him in any way, also he added that I was to offer him out, I am so angry because I never said that at all, I've played football for 25years Saturday and Sunday league never have I had a falling out with a referee like this is alleged to have happen.

We know the county FA will back the referee, I have received a 1 game ban and £35 fine fair play, however they are to hold a meeting to decide on further punishment for comments I didn't even say, how can they punish you twice for one offence, how can a referee be believed 100% why isn't there any clarity on proof like a criminal court

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi David
An unsatisfactory situation. Now as a referee I have at times been told by players that made unsatisfactory comments that they were speaking to a teammate not to me as the referee. I did not believe that and in my opinion it was a lame excuse by the players. Perhaps the argument you were having with the team manager should not have happened and certainly not if it could be construed that it could be aimed indirectly at the referee.
Now I suspect what has happened here is that you have received the automatic ban of one game plus a fine for two cautions . The sending off report however now means that the matter is considered further by a disciplinary panel which will take into account all the facts. The Match Officials, Club and Player are entitled to be present or represented at the Disciplinary Commission if the player elects for a personal hearing. Your club should be able to advise you on the process and it is time bound so it needs to be dealt with immediately.
The question I would pose is that why the comments that were alleged to be made were not a sending off offence for using offensive, insulting and abusive language rather than a caution for dissent? Now that is not to say that the comments were made after the dismissal in which case they are added to the sending off report not the reason for the dismissal.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi David,
ok first the idea of using the word 'idiot' in place of the word ...idea... seems rather superfluous. I get you are not a fan of the referee or this referee in the situation you find yourself in. Or is the word...idea... miss spelled?

A referee with integrity sees what he sees and hears what he hears.

If you speak out loud for others to hear and those comments reflect your view of the officials or the match whether or not they are directed DIRECTLY at the referee or not they add to the general aura of dissent . It is of course possible that another swore near you and as such the comment was attributed to you . In such a case that individual could step forward at your committee hearing to state the same.

As for being angry I suggest you have a good look around the world in general! There are plenty of things other than a recreational match of soccer to be angry about. The correct term is disappointed. In both behaviour and for allowing emotion to cloud judgement as to reasonable conduct on a soccer pitch.

As to what the official was thinking in cautioning you a 2nd time for the reasons you state. Such comments are a direct send off offence as foul and abusive actions or language so for only dissent, a lesser crime, count yourself fortunate.

My colleague REF McHugh states the procedural hoops ahead for you. I can not force you to have a sit down at the local pub for an informal chat with the referee in question and just have a candid honest conversation to set this matter in context. Your claim of 25 years with no issues I could hope there is reason not to let one moment of ugliness to be highlighted.

I can not speak for the referee in question as to his actions his reasons his decisions to act as he did. I can tell you that I would have no issues with a player that I dealt with during a match to offer a handshake and ask that there be no hard feelings even if we agree to disagree on the situation. I am always disappointed as an official when I feel obligated to caution or dismiss a player because I feel that my actions on the pitch did not make it apparent such conduct is not acceptable. As grown men we act accordingly and set aside prejudice and assumptions to presume we must be right, only that we acted honourably as to our opinion of a given situation.

There is a vast chasm of difference in humility and being humiliated! The benefit of a sincere apology for actions or statements made in the heat of an emotional moment SHOULD be accepted by anyone with a reasonable attitude as to human nature. Being held accountable for the situation does not mean you accept sole responsibility, even if another chooses to think that. An apology is NOT necessarily an admission of guilt but a true reflection of a responsible adult acting as one! There is no weakness in saying Sorry! I truly wish this never happened!

Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

It's hard to tell exactly what happened, but for information's sake, comments made about a referee to somebody else (eg a player complaining to a teammate about the referee being a 'cheat') - or even comments simply made to somebody else and not in reference to the officials - are still dissent or offensive, insulting and/or abusive language and/or gestures. Thus, you can still be cautioned or sent off no matter who you're speaking to/about.

If the referee has made an innocent mistake - misheard a word, or attributed somebody else's comments to you, then I appreciate that's frustrating. For better or for worse there's no other way around it. When players will deny what's been said (and players will either lie or downplay events at a tribunal), and will often have their club lying to support them (not accusing you of this, but the reality is that it does happen), it is often the player's word against the referee's. Any reasonable minded person would agree that the referee's word is more likely to be objective, hence given more weight. If a player could always get off by simply saying 'I didn't do it' then discipline would become a joke and completely unenforceable, as I'm sure you'll agree.