Question Number: 29137

League Specific 1/26/2015

Gus Vandermeeren of GAITHERSBURG, MD USA asks...

I was re-reading the USSF Advice to Referees (ATR) the other day and came across something that still isn't clear to me. It concerns a 'too many players on the field' situation that's not noticed by the ref until after a goal has been scored by the team that has too many players (and BEFORE the game is restarted)

Two such scenarios are described in the ATR:

scenario 1) A sub illegally entered the game. For example, in an unlimited subs game, 4 players came off and 5 went on.
In this case, I believe the correct procedure is to disallow the goal and restart with a goal kick, regardless of which player from the offending team 'scored' the goal.

I certainly hope that's correct, since it unfortunately happened to me last season and that's how I handled it (in my defense, it was a 1 ref rec game with mass substitutions)

scenario 2) Referee cautioned the same player twice in one game but failed to follow up with an immediate sendoff. Ref did not become aware of this until a goal was scored.
In this scenario, I used to think it should be handled same way as scenario 1. However the ATR seems to state that it depends on who scored the goal. Unless I'm misreading, it seems to say that, if the goal was scored by the player who should've been sent off earlier, then the goal is not allowed and the restart is a GK, but if it was scored by a teammate of his, then the goal is permitted.

Could you clarify what the correct procedure is?
I know that regardless of your answer, two components of the correct procedure are to
a) immediately send off the player and
b) write it all up in the game report (and take your knocks like a man :-)
Thanks!
p.s. (at least scenario #2 never happened to me :-)

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Gus,
I share your pain.
Under FIFA LOTG, a player who is leaving may do at any point on the pitch, if the referee is aware it is occurring. At times an injury or cramp makes it more practical then hobbling to the midline and to save time when lots of subs are ongoing in a match.. The replacement at the midline must still wait for the player to exit before the referee would allow him on. In limited substitutions we often exchange at the midline as a formality, apparently under certain leagues it is written in as mandatory

What you know and when do you know it factors into illegal substitutions.

I take a great deal of care on unlimited substitutions for the very reasons you describe. Yet I too found a way to screw it up even with my careful systematic procedural efforts not to do so! During a routine tournament U-12 match with 30 minute halves and unlimited subs with rosters of 20 plus they were allowed 3 subs at once! I got an ego check , thinking I was pretty sharp on my substitution procedures. Sigh! .

I even had the players who were being replaced raise their arm above their head when they left the field so I would know they were off the pitch. I saw 3 blue player hands raised up and waving! Thinking 3 players had departed the field at the far touchline, I allowed 3 blue substitutes to enter at the midline. So a goal is scored by the blue team within a minute and we restart with kick off when suddenly it becomes apparent to me the blue team that scored had 12 players on the field. I stop play thinking perhaps the coach had sent someone on at the kick off . What I did not know was one of the three players I saw at the far touchline waving was one young lad from the technical area who had walked around the field to use the washroom, just happened to be waving at his parents up in the bleachers at the exact same time and about the same area as the substitutions were being made. I was over confident, complacent and arrogant in my assumptions that I knew what was going on. I did not identify which player by number. I did not really see them exit the field. I just looked in and around to spot those who had raised their hands. I did not count the number of players at the restart to be aware there was a problem. Thus, the goal stood, I looked rather foolish with no one to blame but me . I sorted my mistake, it taught me how easy we let our guard down when things seem to be going rather well or perhaps in thinking we know everything there is to know. lol

The point is NOW that it IS known, we have to remove a player! Play is stopped , in YOUR version play has not restarted so the GOAL can be annulled and the extra player removed . I still do not think you can caution the extra player because the fault lies with you as the referee. Now as for starting with a goal kick that might work if the goal was scored directly by the team with too many but what if it was an own goal? The ball crossing the goal line is last touched by the defenders NOT the attackers? I say the correct restart is an INDFK out from within the goal area. Slightly different as offside is not exempt on the restart but more in keeping with the LOTG as the last known ball location before the goal.

Your twice cautioned player event has been discussed at length many times. The LOTG state if a player is shown the yellow card and cautioned twice he MUST be sent off. Failure to do so we have created a huge problem which in your version is coming around to bite us on our collective butts. I hold the opinion he is in fact an outside agent and if the referee stops the match, he must restart play with a dropped ball from the position of the ball when the match was stopped, subject to law13 special circumstances in the goal area, and you show him a red card and send him off!

I would not permit a goal to stand if this information was made aware to me before the kick off ..AND.. I was aware the outside agent interfered with play in any way prior to the goal being scored. If the outside agent was not involved then the goal stands, you restart with a kick off after you show him a red card and send him off!

You are correct you write up the match report and expect to get reamed by someone for something lol
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Gus
On the extra player on the scoring your interpretation is correct. The goal s disallowed, the extra player us cautioned and the restart is either a goal kick or an IDFK in the goal area.
As regards the scenario with the referee mistake the best solution is not to allow it to happen in the first place. Now the Laws do nit allow for these error situations. What we know is that a sent off player us treated as an outside agent.